Bryan Fetzer has spent years around elite performance, but this conversation is not really about sports. It is about people. About what pressure reveals, what success can conceal, and how leadership often fails when it becomes too focused on outcomes and not enough on transformation.
In this episode, Bryan reflects on his own evolution as a coach and leader. He talks honestly about the tendency to become transactional, the importance of filtering out noise, and the responsibility leaders carry when the people around them are struggling in ways they cannot always see. The conversation moves from athletics into business, schools, churches, and everyday life, with a simple but weighty reminder: no one becomes their best self alone.
For Oklahoma City, that kind of conversation matters. Because strong communities are not built by talent alone. They are built by leaders with perspective, humility, and the courage to care about what is happening beneath the surface.
Transcript
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0:00 At this time, we're going to introduce Bryan Fetzer. But Bryan, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate you. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on. We like I said, we really have enjoyed just getting to know you and hearing more about your life, what you've done. So how long you been married? What's your wife's name? Any kids? No, that's the most important part. No, no kids. OK. Christina, she's she's an absolute. She goes by Tia, but absolutely has changed my life tremendously. And I got married very late.
0:57 Yeah, I got married very late. I'm in I'm in my mid 50s. OK. And I didn't get get married until I was in my late 40s. So it's a very different. Sure. Kind of situation. But she came into my life at the right time and has really helped me see what I need to do to become better. Yeah. And she's she's awesome. She's she's a businesswoman and she dresses me. Twenty three years. Division one coach, track coach. Was it some great universities? OK. Very, you know, between Berkeley and Mississippi State and Gardner
1:33 Webb and Ranger and Ball State. That's awesome. It gave me an opportunity to really see the country. Yeah. Crisscrossed the country. I lived in seven different states coaching. Yeah. And you've seen all kinds of things. I'm sure with athletes you've seen, you know, young people come into the that league, that division, which it's a different beast. I'm sure it is division one athletics. You know, I'm sure like football, especially they say the jump that happens from high school to college is pretty incredible. Incredible. Every every every level you go up from. Yeah. High school to college and from any kind of college is division one.
2:08 And then the big jump is pros because I mean, everybody is the best. Yeah. And so, you know, so it keeps that level. The. The ability level continues to increase. I know. I just imagine like a red line meter right below the red line all the time, you know, in that world. It's you know, it can be really intense. And when you start looking at just even how it's changed in the last minute, I retired from coaching back in 2019. And, you know, moved more into the business side and the broadcast side of things. But.
2:40 It was it was crazy then. Yeah. And it's even crazier now with all the. Sure. Portals and name, image and likeness and all that. So even as a coach and of course athletes, there's a level of pressure that comes that I'm sure. I'm so I'm sure that you've probably experienced that. I'm sure you've seen that in the students that, you know, either collapse under it or, you know, thrive under it one or the other. Sure. So I'm sure there's a lot of that that you've seen in your in your career.
3:10 And so that would that kind of leads me to what you do now. But before I really go into what you do now, kind of give me before coaching before everything else, you know, what was that life like for you? Just really quick. You know, I know we have all I know it's a long time for guys like us to share with us. How long in that timeline is now you're way earned to me, I'm sure. But you know what I mean? Like, tell me what it was like growing up a little bit and what kind of led you to the whole sports world?
3:36 Well, I grew up in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, started coaching junior college football down in Texas. OK, it at Ranger Junior College, which was was great. Great experience. Had some great athletes. Phil Wickwar, Kurt Nichols, you know, Bill Gams. I mean, I was around some really good coaches that I got a chance to to learn from. OK, it probably goes back to my parents. Yeah. Like work hard. Yeah. Treat people good and work hard. It's crazy with the how far that will get you. Yeah. I mean, my my high school coach, John Sabatello, was was was pretty influential.
4:12 We just just with the standards. Yeah. That you you set a certain standard and that's where you go to. And you and you try to go above it. Yeah. So, I mean, it's kind of that's kind of how it led kind of into coaching. I didn't do coaching, did that. All I said, all I ever wanted to do. And God kind of put me in a kind of got put in a situation where it was, you know, do I really go for the highest level? And I got offered a job when I was second year, I think coaching junior college.
4:46 I was 20, you know, 23 or so. Yeah. At a pretty major school. And I talked to one of my my coaching mentors at a time was kind of helping me through things. And he basically called me out and was like, you know, you're a young kid. They're not real concerned about how good you can coach because you can't coach your kid. You're just learning. Yeah. And it was more along the lines of, you know, if you have the integrity that I think you have, you're probably going to turn it down because you're not going there to coach.
5:15 You're going there to do, you know, not very not very lawful recruiting. Do some businesses. Yeah. Is the way college football and unofficial business, unofficial officially. And he knew and he knew how I was that. I hated to lose. Yeah. And I wanted I had I wanted a dream. And he goes, I can see you being compromised if you do that. So I remember going back and kind of figuring out, like, God, like, what do you want me to do? This is all I've ever wanted to do. And he kind of let me down the track and field pass.
5:45 I was coaching track at the time, but I'd be the first to admit that I wasn't a track coach at that time. Yeah. And I had had a lot to learn and kind of went on and moved on from there. And and we probably talked a little bit too long about it, but, you know, moved into the track. And then 23 years later, I was blessed beyond belief to experience some of the Olympians, Olympians I've had and the national champions and stuff. I can't imagine. It's it's pretty crazy. It was it was it was nuts that in 2024, there was seven athlete, former athletes from my program in Paris, which was that's pretty, pretty special to them.
6:23 Sure. And I'm sure there's a lot of relational component that was important to you. But what are some other thing one other thing that maybe stuck out to you now in your leadership that you try to pass on to people? Well, it's it's really interesting. And I say really interesting from a standpoint of. When you're an assistant coach, the relationship with your athletes is a little different than when you're the head coach. Gotcha. Yeah, it's a little closer. It's a little closer. It's a little more. There's a little more conversation when you're a head coach and at a college level.
7:02 I mean, you're really a CEO. Yeah, you're running the business. You have a small group. You're managing a lot, which I actually didn't like that towards the end. But it's one thing that I spent so much and it's probably one of the if you say what's one change you could have made from coaching from beginning to end is I was very transactional. Okay. For the majority part of my coaching career. Okay. As opposed to transformational. Okay. A little bit transformational, but it was very much so you perform. It was for the transaction.
7:33 The transformation. Yeah, the transformation occurred because of the transaction. And I didn't really realize that towards the end of my career. I got to become a good friend with a gentleman named Todd Gonmer who wrote a book called Lead for God's Sake. Okay. And he, our athletic director, Craig Little Page, who is one of, he's retired now, but one of the greatest administrators in all the sports. There's no question. And he brought Todd in and Todd kind of dove in and kind of get to know us more and we talked about it.
8:03 So that was kind of a transformation point. But one of the things are, we had program principles. Okay. That we kind of, kind of based in, we wanted them to be synonymous with everybody. And I've had more athletes than I can recall say they still remember the principles and, you know, doing to others as you'd have done to you. Yeah. And I'll, I'll use the prefix that they're all biblical based. Sure. Great. Doing to others as you'd be done to you, you know, every, you know, get better every day in every way.
8:38 Yeah. Which is a simple kind of thought. Sure. You know, it only matters who matters. And we kind of did the, who we were the Wahoos, but, but really, you know, it only matters who really matters in life. Don't worry about social media. Don't worry about everything else. Don't read comments. Yeah. The people that matter to you are the ones that who should matter. For sure. And that's who you should be concerned with. And the last one is, you know, be grateful for everything because you're entitled to nothing. And if you can, if you can adhere to those four principles, man, you, you're going to be pretty good in everything.
9:09 I mean, just roll with that. That's a great human. You know what I mean? That really can accomplish great things out of that principle. You know what I mean? I know I fall short on those. Me too. But, but, but that's, that's, that's a standard still. Right. It's a standard. Yeah. And if we don't want to establish a standard, we're just kind of floating around, you know, and not aspiring towards anything. And so I love that. I love that. Those were your standards. And I think that that's, you know, probably a good reason why you saw a lot of your athletes in Paris, you know?
9:40 And so that's just really cool. And so I love this because, you know, it seems like your career is one experience after another, seeing how this, these different pressures can affect athletes. Right. And coaches and everybody involved. Absolutely. You know, let's even, then you throw now the NIL in the mix, you know, and all these different things that. Yes. And they gum up the work, so to speak, you know, for a lot of young people, you know, coaches, everybody, you know, and so now more than ever, most likely, I believe anyway, that, you know, being able to perform on a high level, your mental focus has to be next level.
10:16 And not only that, but your ability to manage crisis or people tearing at you, pulling from you on every angle, how to categorize those things becomes imperative. And so now I know that you're in that work, you know, and so you're, you're more than a, a, a successful D1 track coach. You're more than a, you know, successful ESPN analyst, sports analyst, you know, you name it, all these things that you've done, owner of a business, all these different. You're more than that. You're somebody that saw a gap, I think in, in the, in the development of high performing athletes.
10:51 And so help me understand how you got to the place where you are now, where you're trying to fill that gap. Well, meeting Dr. Wayne Chappelle, who I know has been on the show. He's great. And, uh, unbelievable person. Yeah. Three years ago, we kind of, making a long, a very long, boring start short. Uh, we met and we were having lunch and he kind of, he had a vision with his products that he kind of came up with his assessments and, and, and kind of the, the Psy Optimal process.
11:22 Of helping really sports. And that was kind of the main focus. And I got brought in to say, Hey, you know, you've been around pro sports, college sports. Do you think this is something that could be scalable to a greater number? I mean, he, right now, I mean, he's currently the, the sports psychologist, the, the Oklahoma city thunder, which is pretty successful. Pretty, pretty big deal in the city. Yeah. Um, but you know, so he, he did that and we, we talked about it and it was, I mean, I was sold after maybe five minutes.
11:53 Sure. When he just kind of explained it because him coming from the military side, my younger brother, military special operations. So I, I got it really quick and I saw that, and I saw the advantages of it. And it's been very interesting to see how we started off straight down the sports path. And it's since then evolved into the church community, the ministry community, the businesses, school systems. And it's, I mean, it's, it's expanded quite rapidly and quite, uh, very broad because you start to find out that. Yeah. It doesn't matter what occupation it is.
12:33 It doesn't matter what line of, you know, work you're in. Everybody struggles. And the only way that you can become the best version of yourself is with others. You can't be the best version of yourself by yourself. Right. And, and the whole goal is to help somebody become the best version of themselves. Right. And that's the whole kind of thought process. Yeah. You know, and I think I'm, I'm just a big advocate of this, uh, philosophy. Maybe it is, or a principle or whatever, but you know, we, we, we have all the knowledge in the world, you know, on how to address our psychological performance or whatever the case may be.
13:09 It's not necessarily that it's how you, how you approach that and how you deliver that to the person you're trying to get that into, you know? And so that's what I love about Psy Optimal and Dr. Chappelle and yourself as well, is that you've developed this system that really helps people understand. It's, it's, it's, it's a set of tools essentially that can be used by a counselor, by another psychologist, a performance coach. So there's that aspect of it, but then there's also where we go in and assess a company or assess a business, provide them with feedback on how to become better leaders.
13:46 Yeah. Because it's one thing to, to gain knowledge of something, but it's another thing to be able to, to act on that. And have a systematic approach to applying it to your day. It needs to be checks along the way. So, I mean, you do something initially you see, but everybody wants feedback. You want to be able to find out like, am I getting better? Am I, am I improving it or, or am I going backwards? Right. And, you know, you, you have to do those kinds of things to, for growth to happen.
14:18 And people that don't think that they need. Yeah. That growth or they need help. It, it's becoming more and more. Yeah. More and more. They don't think, Hey, I can do this on my own, which we're meant to be a community. Yeah. We're meant to live in community. That's kind of the whole, whole purpose of, of life really. Right. You know, from a standpoint of it's community. It's how you interact with others. Well, it's exciting what you guys do. And so, um, went away from sports kind of like started seeing this is a need everywhere.
14:51 Absolutely. And so you guys are primarily, where are you primarily located right now? We're kind of all over the place. Okay. Yeah. There's not, I mean, I mean, I live down in Florida. Sure. I've been up to OKC. Yeah. A lot lately. I know. And I'm sure I'll be up here a lot more in the next, you know, in the coming weeks. It's kind of what I was leading to. It sounds like, you know, we might be seeing more of you guys. So I, and I love it because I think there's, you know, such a potential for, you know, you
15:16 never know where things lead, but there's cool opportunities for some of what you guys do that could help. I feel like our students here at the center. And so that could be exciting. Don't want to put anything on record, obviously, but we're just thinking there's such a good opportunity. Students are where it's at. That's the next generation. It's the individuals that are going to be leading this country and leading this world. So if you're not trying to impact them, like, what are you trying to do? Yeah. If you're not taking that, you know, that forward approach and really going, and it's really
15:47 going to where somebody is. And that's why we've kind of expanded out from just sports to realizing that the business is needed, the church is needed. Church is needed as much as anything else. Because you're talking about the leadership of somebody that's leading a congregation, that's leading the church, and the individuals that are in that process. I mean, what a better way to help lead than do that. And I think there's a misconception that a leader is a CEO, is a principal, is an athletic director, is a coach. That's not the case.
16:20 You have influence, you lead. Moms, dads, teachers. Yeah. The person that served your food at whatever restaurant you're in. You can be a leader in any category, in any shape or form. It's presenting, you know, good principles. Sure. And it's presenting, you know, somebody that can look up to, and you never know. Yeah. The whole adage, you know, character is who you are when no one's looking, is so true. I think back, I mean, I spent a quick minute as a high school athletic director a couple years ago. And it's crazy, the noise you hear.
17:01 Yeah. And this goes for any kind of athletic director or any business person, anybody. You could say, you know, somebody could say, hey, your culture's terrible at your business or this area is bad. And it might be one person. Right. And you don't know that because you just hear a loudest voice. And everything else can be great. I mean, we see that in society all the time. You know, people scream about X, Y, and Z, and it's not there. It's that person. Yeah. So, you know, it gives you that information.
17:30 And I think, and I would say, if you don't, you know, we're not using our stuff, but just keep in perspective that there's more to it. Yeah. Than what meets the eye a lot of the time. Sure. You've got to actually do a deep dive and understand, you know, what is your culture like? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And as a leader, you're blind to it a lot of times. You really are. Yeah. Because you think, because, I mean, I could think of from personal notes when we were winning. Yeah. You think everything's going great.
17:57 Yeah. But you could be winning and you could be right at the, you could have that Titanic, you know, that big iceberg. If you ever see that. Yep. You could barely see the tip and you're like, oh, everything's great. And you realize that all this excitement's caused these guys to start drinking too much and they're getting their part. You know what I'm saying? You never know what's happening on the surface. You never know. And it explodes when you get to that trophy stage, you know? Yeah. And so you gotta, you gotta keep that in mind.
18:20 Sure. As a leader, as somebody that, you gotta have the big picture. For sure. That makes total sense. Well, I love it. Well, so we've talked about you, you know, what got you into all this work, you know, the work that you guys do, um, here, you know, with, through Psy Optimal, I love that, but I was going to throw out some questions to you that just kind of like, will help us understand your perspective on some of the things we've been talking about even further. So number one, like, what did you once believe about mental performance that you've now changed
18:51 your mind on? I thought it'd be tough. You just gotta be this or something. I don't know. Yeah. No, that would, I mean, you're brought up that, Hey, you've got to be tough. Yeah. You gotta suck it up. Yeah. But you do in a way. Yeah. And, you know, the kind of the misconception I think with, and I've, I've heard Wayne talk about this a ton. I've heard tons of other psychologists recently talk about it, that it's okay to show emotion. Yeah. It's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to realize there's issues.
19:23 Yeah. It, it, that's, that's life. And you're not, you know, the whole, Hey, you just, just breathe and feel good and think happy thoughts. No, that's not reality. Yeah. Like think about what, what are you going to do when bad things happen? Right. How are you going to be prepared when the stuff hits the fan? Sure. What is your reactions going to be like? Yeah. That is mental performance. Right. That, that is, that is taking things to another level because everybody likes it when it's all rosy. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But what happens when you miss that shot?
19:56 Yeah. What happens when you miss that catch? Yeah. Or you give up the home run or you fail at a business. Mm-hmm. You, you, the deal you closed, it was terrible. Yeah. For sure. You know, the, the, the donor that didn't approve the grant. Yeah. What did I do wrong? You know, all these different things, you can lose an edge by beginning to question yourself. And I, I even think that there is a potential, and I've seen this in myself. That's why I say this, to have kind of a victim mindset, kind of creeps in a little bit.
20:26 And it's like, sometimes, you know, honestly, we've been designed to where we can be resilient, you know? So, sure. You know, that whole statement, toughen up actually means, Hey, we are resilient. We can actually, you know, push through certain things. Now we have to do it with a healthy path. Like, you know, you guys provide, but at the same time, you know, yeah, we are, we don't have to be beat down by our circumstance. We can actually leverage it for something really powerful in my opinion. So, I mean, failure helps you learn and it's, it's a, it's a true statement.
21:02 It's not one statement. Yeah. That's a great state because this next question is perfect for it. So where does winning hide the problems within a team? Well, cause people think everything's good. Yeah. I mean, they think, they think everything's great. You know, the guys are performing well, but I think people fail to realize. Or what is success? I think that's probably the first thing you got to look at. What is success is winning one time success or is winning consistently success or being successful over a period of time. Yeah. You know, there's, there's a lot of flash in the pan companies.
21:41 There's a lot of flash in the pan sports programs or athletes. It's one, what happens once the pressure gets ramped up. Yeah. You win the first championship. You make the first big sale. You make your first million dollars. You know, your church grows. What happens next? That, that is, that's what separates. Sure. Big time. The good from the great. I can see even like, especially with sales leadership, you would have such a great benefit to them because that is a mental edge you have to have because you're, sometimes you're making
22:17 a hundred calls in a day and you get one sale, you know, next day you make calls and all 10 calls. So, you know, it's like, you never know, but the rejection though, I would assume that you experience in that role as a salesperson. That's, you know, you're depending on your commission for your family. That's a lot of pressure. I mean, recruiting. I mean, I don't know how many recruits told me they weren't interested over the years. Yeah. And pressure, I think is a perspective too that we have to really understand.
22:45 Yeah. Because what some perceive as pressure isn't really pressure. Yeah. It's, you know, pressure, you know, is, you know, a mother trying to provide for a child with not a lot of money. Yeah. Um, it's, it's people that are in war that are, that are, you know, police officers, firefighters that are going into a house. That's pressure. Swinging a baseball bat. It's not so much pressure. Yeah. It's entertainment. Especially when you, you know, dip back into your $10 million house. You know, it's, it's, it's perspective. I mean, do they feel pressure?
23:30 Yes. Absolutely. They definitely do. Sure. Yeah. But you, to understand what pressure is and how to deal with it, how to deal with it appropriately. Yeah. Is another thing. Yeah. Yeah. I do not want to minimize that, that type of pressure for elite athletes. No, no, not, not at all. For sure. Yeah. I'm not trying to, I wasn't trying to do that myself personally at all. So I, but cause I, I can't imagine what that has to be like, you know, you don't know what it's like until you're in that, you know, and you've seen that up close.
23:55 So you know exactly what it looks like. And so, you know, this whole mindset thing is so important, but what would you say most coaches don't realize, realize most elite athletes are feeling most of the time in their career? Like, so an elite athlete, your everyday average guy that gets into the league, what is he feeling? What kind of, what's the pressure like? They are a lot of times worrying about the failure piece because it's there. They're trying, they're trying to make their move. Yeah. You know, cause most athletes don't come in as the superstar.
24:31 Right. You know, there's, there's very few times that somebody, you know, comes in day one out of high school and they're a Cooper flag or something of that nature where they're instantly, they're great in college and then boom, they're great in the pros. Yeah. That's not normal. It's, it's usually the guys that, and I use baseball as an example because it's a, it's a great analogy from the fact that guys are playing college and they're playing double A and they'll ride the bus and they're, you know, they're going city to city and they're
25:01 not making a whole lot of money and then they're going to triple A and then they finally get to the majors and then there's that pressure to, I got to stay. Yeah. I made it. Now I got to stay. And there's all the noise outside you because once you become successful, you have a lot of noise outside telling their opinions. Yeah. People that weren't really there on your journey. For sure. But are there now as a part of it. And social media is one and a lot of, a lot of athletes struggle with social media and
25:31 a lot of, you know, entertainers, it's just in general struggle with social media because they're reading the noise as opposed to blotting out the noise and saying, Hey, we're going to, we're going to stick to what we're doing. Yeah. And then you have all the people that I'll call the hangers on, you know, that, Hey, the, the, you know, they want to be a part of it in some fashion. Yeah. And, but where are they going to be when things don't go good? Yeah. It's so good. It's, I mean, you have, as an athlete, you have that kind of noise around you so much.
26:04 And, and there's no different from, I mean, you see it in any entertainment space or any space that is, uh, forward seeing like, you know, pastors, people that are on social media. Right. There's a ton of pastors out there that, that are, are very, very much present on social media that get darts and arrows thrown at them all the time because they say something that offends somebody. Yeah. That doesn't go to their church. That doesn't, that, that heard the snippet on, on a, you know, on a, a podcast or something
26:40 like that, or a sermon and though, and they're starting to, Hey, we need to, we need to get rid of this person. They're, they're terrible. Yeah. It's the noise. That's probably the best word to kind of take off of it is don't listen to the noise, which goes all the way back to say when I, with the principles that we, we used in Virginia and some other places that, you know, it only matters who matters. Like you've got to realize who actually matters in your life and, and not worry about the ones
27:14 that don't, you know, the people that are going to be there, your, your family, you know, your, your teammates, if that's saying some of the, some of your trusted colleagues, your people that you're around in your church community. And, and, well, if you were to share something, um, to coaches that are coaching elite athletes that are maybe on their way up right now, they're, they're developing and things like that. What would you say would be, I wouldn't say an appeal, but more of like, um, Hey man, I really hope you consider this.
27:41 Would you do this to consider implementing this in your plan for your students? I, I, I would, what I said a little bit ago is be, be transformational and not transactional. Yeah. That's a good statement. I like to wrap it back around with it. It's, it's such an important part. And I, and if you say, what is the, if you could pick one thing out of your entire 23 years of coaching that you didn't do a great job all the time at was that. Okay. And, and, and trying to be more transformational, trying to find out more about how they're experiencing
28:15 because a lot of times as a coach, look at the college level and pros is not much different, but you, and even for a high school coach, you don't know what happened five minutes ago. Right. I mean, my wife, my wife says it all the time to me and I laugh. We're driving and living in South Florida. If you've never lived in South Florida before the speed limits, a suggestion. Yeah. It's kind of just, it's very much so like suggestion, but you know, somebody comes flying down and cuts you off and goes things.
28:49 And, and, and she's said it for years. She goes, and you start getting a little bit mad. She goes, you don't know what's going on. That's right. They might be, they might be, you know, heading to the hospital for a birth. Somebody might've got hurt. They might have somebody in their car that needs to go hot. You have no idea. It's true. So that same perspective goes into, you're coming to practice. Yeah. Kid has a bad attitude or, or, or feels off. Yeah. You don't know what just happened. Right. Earlier in the day.
29:19 You don't know what they're going to write them off as a punk or whatever, you know? Absolutely. You don't know the whole situation. And I think that can apply to more than just coaches and athletes. A lot of people in business, the server at the restaurant is a little rude. Yeah. Do you don't, you don't know what their day's been like? What if, what if, what if they just, you know, got out of a relationship or something? It's perspective. And I think, I think coaches and leaders really need to understand perspective.
29:48 Yeah. And, and to ask questions. Yeah. Find out more about whoever you're dealing with. So then you can help lead them better. When you look at it, you know, scripture, some of the best leaders out there, um, they ask a lot of questions. Yeah. You know, I think listening as a leader is probably the best, uh, uh, communication characteristic that we should have, you know? Absolutely. And I think oftentimes, and I'm guilty of this myself as a leader at times, I, I'm thinking about the answer because I feel like I already got it for them now while they're giving me this whole breakdown, you know?
30:23 And that's just not fair. You should listen, you know, because I'm promise you there's something in there that you're probably missing. Absolutely. As a leader, you know? And so slowing down listening, that does help a lot, but. Well, Brian, I really appreciate you. And thank you for making time to come on our podcast. You know, it means a lot to us. We do like to highlight hope around here at Voices of OKC too, you know? So I think it'd be kind of cool for one last, you know, one last thing that you could share with us.
30:49 Like, what's the most hopeful thing about the future for elite athletes or elite leaders and other types of leaders that are trying to become elite? What's, what's your hope for them currently right now in the space that you're in that you see? Well, I mean, I would hope that people would see Jesus Christ in everything we do. Yeah. That would be the bottom line thing. I mean, that's really why we're doing what we do to help leaders, you know, not necessarily just see that, but they would see Christ in us and what work we're doing.
31:30 That's the hope that we have. And I know Wayne feels the same way. Yeah. It's a lot to hope for, but there's good people out there. And I think people have it in them. They just have to get it exposed. Sure. They just have to, they have to have an opportunity to see what things are like. And when you look at research, individuals that have faith are, have so much greater opportunities for success and have so many more opportunities to, to battle mental health problems and battle issues that might come about from a, from a big standpoint.
32:12 Very true. Well, one more time before you go, where's, what's the best way to get in touch with you guys? What's the website or? It's PsyOptimal.com, P-S-Y Optimal, PsyOptimal.com. You can follow us on social media, LinkedIn. I mean, my LinkedIn, Dr. Chappelle's LinkedIn is always an easy, isn't easy. Brian, thanks again so much. We really appreciate you. Great getting to know you, my friend. And I'm excited that you guys are going to be around here a lot. You know, obviously with Dr. Chappelle being a part of the Thunder organization, I know that that's kind of a default deal, but you're going to actually be here.
32:47 I'm excited to hear more too. So I love that. And good luck on the, the plans on making all that happen. So I appreciate it. Appreciate you guys so much. And I hope you have safe travels guys. Thank you again for joining us.